Alex- I mostly remember the second meeting. I arrived on time and George kept me waiting at the bar for twenty minutes while he pulled pints and chatted with a regular who came in every day after lunch. We were meant to be discussing a restaurant and he was looking after someone who’d come in for a drink. I knew then the man had his priorities straight. George- Don’t remember much about the first interaction but the day after we went for a walk through the fields and talked about our inspirations, aspirations and views on hospitality. We aligned on so many things which is quite rare. After that first meeting we had many more chats before we decided to embark on this partnership. We are both very aware that this is a long-term thing, that hopefully develops into a friendship besides all business. You spend so much time with each other so it better clicks.

That ice cream makes people silly happy almost immediately. Tower Hamlets Council less so. I was ticketed almost daily and the fines outlasted both my attachment to the idea and my student overdraft. Young’s Ice Cream lasted one season.

To be versatile, flexible and push the boundaries of what you think you and your team are capable of. It also taught me to be a plumber, electrician, woodworker, poop-scooper, surf teacher, kite teacher, first aider, security guard, fire breather, barista, dishwasher, bar back, mixologist, roof worker. And all of this barefoot, with salty hair and a tan.

Alex- For me it wasn’t so much being surrounded by beautiful things but how they relate to one another. The arrangement of objects, the distance between pictures, what belongs in a room and what doesn’t. You don’t notice that education while it’s happening and by the time you do it’s too late for you. George- Freedom to express myself through creating. I learned I really liked doing things with my hands. I had arts in my final degree in high school and was close to doing an artistic degree but my love for sports and people took me in a different direction.

Alex- I’m generally concerned with what something could become. George is more concerned with what needs doing this afternoon. We both get involved in most things albeit from different angles. Between us I think we usually arrive at reasonable-ish conclusions. George- There's a lot of overlap, especially in the beginning of a project when we're both involved in pretty much everything. Over time our roles have naturally developed, with Alex leaning more towards the creative side, design and concepting, while I'm more focused on the operational side of bringing those ideas to life. But the two are so intertwined. How a space works is just as important as how it looks and feels. You can't really separate them. We're constantly bouncing ideas off each other, challenging things and figuring out how to create somewhere that feels great for both the guests and the people working there.

Alex- There wasn’t really a specific moment; it was more ideas accumulating over the years. Even now I feel the idea of the place is still changing. Before opening I kept returning to the idea of the pub, there’s a degree of listlessness among patrons that restaurants don’t tend to encourage. You go in for a drink and can end up somewhere quite different. One thing I wanted was that liberty. George- It formed over months and went through so many different iterations. From a wine-focused pub to a wine bar, coffee shop and restaurant. We work in quite a fluid way. There was never really a fixed plan at the beginning that we then set out to execute. We start somewhere, and as we go along, things evolve, ideas change and new people bring something different to the table. With Goodbye Horses, that happened when Leopold came on board to help design the space, taking things in a new direction. Then Nathalie joined as our wine director and really elevated the wine programme, and when Jack joined as head chef, the food took on a whole new life. We have an idea of where we want to go, but we're not too protective over what that idea becomes. You have to trust the people who join you and let their experiences and ideas shape it. What you create together is so much more interesting than what you could have imagined at the start. I guess we light the candle and work hard to let it grow into a raging fire.

Alex- The Q Lazzarus song. I can’t say I realised at the time that it’s a song about leaving the five senses behind and I suppose we’re doing the precise opposite. George- A track by Q Lazzarus, we must have had a thousand names. But Goodbye Horses hit everything. The most important thing was that it should not evoke any feeling of a bar or restaurant, it could be anything and there is a mystery and exploration part to that that sets people's expectation to zero.

Alex- We weren’t looking for an area so much as somewhere lost and leafy that felt a step removed from London. We found an old pub stripped bare on Halliford Street that was narrowly spared from conversion into flats. George- Because that's where Alex found the perfect site after years of searching: residential, wide streets, large trees, hidden away.

Alex- Somewhere you could go on a Tuesday when nothing in particular had happened. George- Free of expectations. Somewhere you feel comfortable, where you can explore a little, discover something new, or just settle in with a glass of wine and feel completely at ease. We put so much thought into how a space looks, sounds and feels, but ultimately it's the people working there who bring it to life. You can create the most beautiful room in the world, but if the hospitality isn't right, none of it really matters. And if someone does feel a little overwhelmed by the room, the wine list or anything else, there should always be someone there to make them feel like they're exactly where they should be.

Alex- We inherited the remains of Michael’s Den. It had been a pub, then a steampunk bar, and then very nearly a flat. The conversion never happened but much of the interior had already been ripped out by the developer. George- Michael's Den is what the pub was called - think steampunk inspired interiors and speciality beers, with a rave cave hidden behind a sliding bookshelf in the basement.

Alex- Leopold Banchini designed the interior alongside us, Lucy Stein painted the big light and curtains and I gave the garden a shot with Jihae Hwang as a mentor. George- Leopold Banchini in collaboration with Ltd Ltd, which is the company Alex and I run. Alex will co-design and I’ll be throwing different kinds of render against a wall with our contractor to see what textures and colours we can create and make work.

Alex- Maybe the floor? It’s made of mud and straw, a combination that would seem impractical for a wine bar but pubs once had such floors and did so for hundreds of years. I’m also fond of the big boulder we drove down from the Highlands. George- God, can you choose? Lighting is a massive thing for me in any space. So the main light painted by Lucy stein and the Mars-looking glows on the walls hold a special place. But more unnoticed is the tension between the ceiling and the floor. The ceiling has this old-style stuccowork, that takes just the right amount of pressure and angle to get it right, and is then sprayed with tiny pieces of white cork. It ties in with us being a wine bar, but also works wonders for the acoustics and the neighbours upstairs. Then the broody dark floor made of compacted earth. It's literally clay- you can see the small rocks and pieces of straw. If I'm not mistaken, we were the first to lay a floor like this in a bar/restaurant. Besides a few small holes that we fill every couple of months, it's holding up pretty good!

Alex- More quickly than I expected. People came in and used the place in ways we didn’t expect and we came to understand the place through them really. Some things we’d thought a lot about mattered far less than we’d expected and others we’d hardly considered turned out to be important. George- I think it belonged to the people that are in the building from the start, regular or first timer. The space is where people come live their lives, the space where you do that in is yours, out on the street or inside a sexy dimly lit wine bar. During opening when Alex and I were running around, polishing glasses and welcoming guests, I made sure we sometimes took 10 seconds to just be amazed and in awe that there were people inside- enjoying the space as we had visualised it for years and years. It was and still is a pretty special feeling.

Alex- Generous, sometimes eccentric, and nostalgic in a way that’s hard to place. Jack can make something you’ve never eaten before feel like something you’ve known all your life. George- I think the food is playful with a certain amount of depth and full of familiar flavours, with a few unexpected touches. Jack draws a lot on his own memories of food and his Greek heritage, so there’s a personal side to the cooking. You could broadly call it modern European, but at its heart it’s about the pleasure of feeding people. We want you to feel equally comfortable coming in for a cheese toastie and a glass of wine, or settling in for a full dinner.

Alex- The cheese toastie, the fried broken rice and the raw beef have all been there from the start. The affogato too. The recipes change with the seasons and sometimes quite considerably. All except for the toastie that is. We’ve tried changing that several times but never quite had the heart. George- The cheese toastie has never left, but neither have a version of the rice dishes or fish toasts. The sardine sobrasada or the oxtail rice hmmm!

Alex- Typically the rice, raw beef and cheese toastie. We add and change dishes on the menu all the time, which at this point is really just an elaborate way of keeping ourselves busy while everyone orders the same three dishes. George- Oysters, toastie, the version of fish toast and one of the delicious rice dishes.

Alex- The cheese toastie. I’m aware this is the third time I’ve mentioned it, but I’d be lying if I said otherwise. George- What a hard question! This changes and different people will give you different answers - Oxtail & Celeriac Mille-Feuille with Comte.

Alex- The taste really, the interest in what is behind them came after. I was introduced to natural wines at P Franco where embarrassingly I asked for a beer the first time I was in there. In my defence it was a long time ago. There is something particular about many zero-zero wines, they tend to have a kind of life force that other wines don’t have, the French call these wines vins vivants, living wine. George- When I moved to London in 2015, I was introduced to my first bottles. It was so exciting. I didn't know much about wine at the time, but I knew it felt alive and intriguing. Every bottle was a little different. I got really into it when I took a GM role at Brilliant Corners. Many paycheques went on bottles I couldn't really afford, haha. As I learned more, I became fascinated by the people behind the wines. The care that goes into their land, the way they work with nature rather than against it, and the incredible amount of attention and effort that goes into both the vineyard and the cellar. What I love about zero-zero wines is that nothing is added and nothing is taken away. Rather than artificially steering a wine towards a desired end product, the winemaker creates the conditions for the grapes, the land and the vintage to express themselves. That doesn't mean there's less skill involved, quite the opposite. It takes an enormous amount of knowledge, patience and care to make something beautiful without intervening. And I think that's what keeps me excited. There's an honesty and individuality to these wines. They're not always predictable, but that's part of the beauty of it.

Alex- There’s so many but let’s go with François Saint-Lô. There’s a horse involved, an antique press and some limestone caves near Saumur. An elaborate or very simple way to make wine, depending how you look at it, but in any case I’m very glad he does everything exactly the way he does. George- I think Nicolas Pavie in Beaujolais makes some killer wines. When I’m on the floor it's a go-to for a recommendation. Both people that are after something classic and want to be surprised can find themselves in his wines and that is something pretty special.

Alex- I’d ask whoever’s behind the bar what’s drinking well. We have 24ish wines by the glass so there’s always plenty open. George- Explore the by-the-glass list, we have 20 options, let the team guide you and find something new you like.

Alex- Music really matters but it shouldn’t compete with catching up over dinner. We have four restored Tannoys and lots of records but we’re not a listening bar, there’s too much chat for that and I don’t think we’d want it any other way. George- With a lot of care. Sound, just like light, plays an incredibly important role in creating a mood. We hung four Tannoys, one in every corner, powered by Leak tube amps that give a beautiful warm sound. We have an EMT 948 that used to be at the BBC for broadcasting. Both absorb sound and we have added cushioning below all the furniture to increase that.

Alex- Often soul or disco though we play whole records so songs inevitably come on that no sensible person would choose for a Friday night. George- It could start with country or pop, go into disco, house, upbeat tunes during peak time, but bring it down later in the eve with some soul or reggae.

Alex- They’re close enough that they’ve become quite porous. The teams all come together for family meal at Goodbye Horses. Beyond that, I hope a shared sense of generous hospitality. George- I think they all share a certain curiosity. We want each place to have its own personality, rather than trying to recreate something we've already done. There's always an element of surprise, something new to explore, whether that's design, food, or drink. And underneath it all, it's the people. Having a team that's genuinely excited about what they're doing, knows their stuff and enjoys sharing that with guests. That's probably the biggest connection between all four.

Alex- We’ve got a few things in the works and I’m enjoying the uncertainty of what they’ll become. George- Haha, hospitality is so vast, there are so many different things for us to do. That keeps it fun, fresh, challenges us and the team that grow with us. A lot will be happening in 2027, stay tuned!